Obama spoke to us as adults

Commenting on Obama’s speech on race, someone said: “he spoke to us as adults.” That’s a profound observation and in 6 words sums up the difference between the Obama campaign and the McCain campaign.

I am continually thankful for some of my high school education back in rural Alabama in the late 60’s. They took pains to teach us how to recognize propaganda and fallacy. When I asked my English teacher if I could write some propaganda for a class project, she said no. She said that there was no value in learning how to write that way because it was wrong. Since that time, I’ve looked at “spin” and innuendo, and guilt by association, and poisoning the well, and “get on the band wagon” in terms of right and wrong. I am also insulted when someone directs these things at me, because I am smarter than that.

Heaven knows that the McCain campaign is not so bad as some of the stuff on some conservative blogs, but it is still bad. Every time McCain brings out Bill Ayers, or lies about Obama’s tax plan, he is saying “I don’t trust you with the truth”. He is saying “my winning is more important than my integrity”. He is saying “you’re too stupid to realize what I’m doing”. It is condescending and it is insulting. Obama has been candid, forthright, and he spoke to us as adults.

About Kevin

Just an old guy with opinions that I like to bounce off other people.
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26 Responses to Obama spoke to us as adults

  1. TRUTH says:

    You mention the birth certificate won’t go away, WHAT Birth Certificate??? There never has been one, he won’t release it. What you saw is called a COLB-Certificate Of LIve Birth, totally different. Thats like taking a piece of paper, writing down a name and birthdate that you read elsewhere, and submitting it saying “HERE, this should do…this is what I seen, just take this” DUHHH!!

    I HAVE an authentic Hawaii Birth Cert, NOT a COLB. WHY doesn’t your boy OBAMA show his to the Legal Officials that have asked to see it? OK, lets assume he is Legal, What has he got to hide. It IS a requirement to be born in the U.S., he needs to show it. WHY is a Harvard Grad dragging this out?

    You’ll ignore each valid point I just made however, and give some Stupid Rhetoric reply that has Zero Substance. Yep, your boy got elected, but December 15th is the real date. Don’t HOLD your breath, he has a court Order to present the document to the U.S.Supreme Court Dec. 1st. We’ll see.

  2. TRUTH says:

    p.s. Obama is a FAKE. He has millions of people fooled, but he is a FAKE. He could care less about YOU or anyone that voted for him. Its all about HIM and some much bigger plans he has yet to reveal, if he gets into office still.

    I feel sorry for someone that appears to be such a Bright person to have fallen for his lair. He is a wolf in a sheepskin. You have let you WANTs overpower your NEEDs. But your not alone, millions and millions made the same mistake.

    I know, no matter what, we’ll all still be ok. Even if the pathetically huge flip-flopping liar takes the office, we will still get through all of this. MUCH Poorer if he has it his way, but we’ll survive. You REALLY don’t understand his tax tricks, none of you. He is going to give you a cut, Yes. But he is allowing current cuts to Expire, and that is never mentioned. He’s Giving you a DOLLAR here, then Taking Away TWO Dollars over there while you are blindfolded. And worse, when he taxes the businesses he SAID he is going to, they aren’t going to pay taxes, Businesses don’t PAY taxes, YOU DO! Can’t you SEE that? They raise their Prices to cover the Taxes… DUHH!!! So, you pay more taxes on the product, but its called Inflation instead so Obama doesnt take the blame. FOOLS. ANd your SO IGNORANT, that you will STILL say “He Gave us MONEY Back, hes a Great Man”. You’ll never see it, his tongue is faster than your eyes.

  3. Kevin says:

    I hope the comments provided, the document images, the State of Hawaii Web Site, and the US State Department web site, along with my commentary have cleared up your misconceptions about what is and is not a legal birth certificate. The sources I provided are official ones, not someone’s blog or Berg’s badly misleading lawsuit.

    If you really do have one of those long form Hawaiian Birth Certificates, what does is say across the top? It says “Certificate of Live Birth”.

    As for Obama being a “fake”: a fake what? The majority of Americans in a majority of the states voted for Barack Obama. Each did so for their own reasons. I do not know how you can be an authority about what Barack Obama is in his private thoughts. It sounds like you’re projecting some kind of personal prejudice on him (I don’t mean to apply racial prejudice.)

    You say that “businesses don’t pay taxes” (which of course some do). For privately-owned businesses (LLC’s) taxes pass directly to business owners. For other corporations, taxes are paid by the business. Generally when a corporation reports their earnings, the meaningful number is EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization). This is what investors look at because taxes are applied equally to all companies, and therefore not a measure of performance. In my company, taxes have never been considered when setting prices.

    I look forward to seeing how the Obama experiment plays out. But as Obama himself said, referring to the current administration: “you couldn’t do any worse.”

    If you have any specific parts of the Obama program you’d like to discuss, feel free to express them here. I don’t get a lot of comments on the blog and I assure that all are appreciated.

  4. TRUTH says:

    First, I have to admit, I was surprised to see the words “Certificate of Live Birth” across the top of my Sons Birth Cert, that YES I do have. He was Born in Hawaii 1989 when I was stationed there. I’ve been using the term COLB as has everyone else, not even looking at the top of my own(or my sons I mean). Still, that doesn’t change the fact the COLB that was shown for Obama was VERY Different and lacking a LOT of information. Another funny thing, the first time I seen it, unless I was COMPLETELY missing it, I could not find the image of the imbossed seal. But NOW, and for a couple weeks, I have easily seen it. I have to question myself for that, but it bugs the crap out of me, I can’t believe I missed it before. I even see the backwards datestamp through from the backside, I didn’t see initially.

    Thing is, with ALL of these questions, why doesn’t Mr. Obama just prove everyone wrong. Ask the GOP to randomly pick 3 GOP reps to fly to Hawaii, meet up with law officials, all of them drive to the hospital he was born and the records department, Visualize this document, see where it is logged in the records from 1961, take pictures and Prove everyone that is questioning him wrong. NOT for the matter to prove everyone wrong even, but to prove his 3rd Necessary Requirement per the Constitution.

    The problem is, people think there is a actual Vetting process, there IS NOT. With his Law degree, he ran for State Senate. With that experience he ran for Senator and a few months after that is all history. There is no requirement within our Constitution to DO VETTING, for it was written in a time that a mans word was good. If he said he had meet the 3 needed Reqs, then he did. This is a different time. Just as the Democrats threw a fit, claiming Sarah Palin wasn’t vetted properly, which she was, so needs to be the PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES. He should not get a pass, just because he was a Senator, or because there is no “standing” as the Penns. Judge claimed. There IS Standing and lots of it. 57 million people voted the other ticket, like it or not a large majority of those people want to know Mr. Obama is qualified. Truth be known, I think he will be…….but thinking and knowing are two different things.

    Yes I believe he is fake and yes that is a personal prejudice and yes it IS NOT racial. I DO NOT trust him, DO NOT believe a man with such little experience deserves the position he is about to take, and do not agree with anyone that dealt with as many undesirable people as he did makes good decisions. Oh , they may have been GOOD for what he was attempting, which was to get all the right contacts that would lead him to where he is now. But JUST ASSOCIATING with the bad people he did is enough to keep him from getting a clearance, LET ALONE him already have one. But that is another pass he will get once he takes office. It will be like him giving himself a pardon almost. Had he ENLISTED in the armed forces, and a background check been ran, he would never get ANY Clearance.

    I’m glad you like the posts. I apologize for coming across harshly. This is no excuse, but I was posting at the same time in another blog that was trashing me, so I was in a mean mood. My bad.

  5. TRUTH says:

    Oh yeah, about the business taxes, I still question that. Even when they pay taxes, they don’t pay taxes. If they know say taxes are going to cost them $5000, that means they need a little over $400 a month extra profit to pay their annual taxes, and where do you think they get that? Slip it into the price of the product. Which yes IN TURN at the end raises their expected taxes even a tad more, but a good business person has it figured out to their benefit. He’ll PAY taxes, but YOU and I are helping the cause. GOvernment raising business taxes just costs US more.

    But thats just my opinion. Well, mine and maybe a few others. haha

  6. Kevin says:

    Truth, If you ordered a copy of your son’s birth certificate today from Hawaii, it would be the computer generated version like Obama’s, not the certified copy of the hospital form that you have now. You’ve asked the same question that others have asked, why doesn’t Obama just …

    I think the answer is that the whole controversy is limited to bloggers, making up .00something % of the population. It’s not on the radar for the Obama campaign. If CNN started covering this, you’d see TV cameras watching the certificate being picked up at the courthouse steps in Honolulu, I bet. And maybe this will come to pass. It certainly seems to have sprung up a cottage industry. I read to day that there are 17 lawsuits in 12 states (not verified). It DID come up at a White House press briefing yesterday, although Bush’s deputy press secretary had no comment to make on it.

    On security clearance, I’m reading right now the book 109 East Palace, the story of J. Robert Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project. Oppenheimer was the director of the Los Alamos National Laboratory that made the atomic bomb. After the war they took away his security clearance because he had friends who were Communists. I think that was a shame.

    As for taxes, I’m no economist. Leave it at that.

  7. Kevin says:

    On the embossed seal, I’ve seen Hawaii birth certificate images where the seal is visible and ones where it is not. The FactCheck.org close-up photos show the seal on Obama’s very plainly, though.

  8. TRUTH says:

    And I agreed that it did show the seal, and I also said I did not see it the first time I looked at the form, and BELIEVE me I WAS looking for it. I guess there is the “chance” I overlooked it, but it sure stands out now. Pretty odd thing, and honestly I’ve never read anyone else talk about that, that’s just me.

    And Okie Doke, so I order another copy of my Sons B.C. and get that copy like is on Factcheck.org, my sons not running for President of the United States. I don’t think it is asking for to much that America see the Actual Birth Certificate on file. This isn’t a man applying for a job at Wal-Mart and just needs to prove his citizenship, he is going for a position a few steps higher than that. Which begs to question, WHY do the Democrats not see it that way? Why are they all so quick to say “oh, what we’ve seen is fine, hes good, you conservatives are loony tones to want to see more”. As I said about me enlisting and being eligible for a clearance, neither could I have enlisted with that secondary copy of a birth certificate, I needed to show them the original(or a certified to be a true copy).

    And Kevin, I’m SUReLY no economist either. But I have a fair sense of judgement. Mr Obamas #’s I’m afraid don’t match. He has all these great ideas, he is going to improve so many peoples lives and their incomes are going to be better off, but where is it going to come from? The only real place he has said thus far is he is going to tax the rich even more. I’m NOT rich, but I know that the rich already pay the majority of the taxes as it is. Increasing their taxes more isn’t going to make the rest of us much better off. And, because he says he isn’t going to tax 95% of us, man is that ever a play on words of the system. He doesn’t have to tax us more, matter fact he can lower our taxes a smidget, and still get more from us. As soon as the Bush tax cut expires in 2010, which he did not talk about at all, our outgoing taxes are going to increase a LOT, about $2500 out of pocket yearly for me. So here is what little I do know as a non-economist. You can give me $1.00 , and later take away $2.00 from me, that isn’t a lifestyle improvement.

    Also I don’t believe your .00 something % is quite representative of really how many people are onto this matter. If you have time, take a look at democratic-disaster.com , obamacrimes.com, just to name a couple. The first site organized a United States wide campaign in the last few weeks, mailing letters to each and every elector before they go to D.C. to cast their electoral ballots officially. Maybe you don’t need better verified proof, maybe no democrats care to see it, and maybe even a percentage of conservatives lack the drive to give a hoot about it, but Sir I can promise you there is a very large percentage of the 57 million other voters that would at least like to see Mr. Obamas actual Birth Certificate so they know they were at least beat fairly in one respect. Am I speaking for 57 million people, you damn well bet I am.

    [[ reading back thru this I got off subject a bit. Obama is the Pres-Elect, I’m not campaigning against him, hes already got it, so sorry for getting long winded. Still, the legal matter at hand is what I’m truly concerned about. If he shows he meets the 3rd Requirement of our Constitution, I’m all good with him going ahead and showing us his stuff. You did however answer as did every other democrat I have spoken with thus far, in that you accept what has been shown already. Not one yet as said “Sure, I’d like to see it and at least prove any disbelievers wrong. But don’t forget, I don’t believe one way or another, I DO NOT Know and merely want to see it so that I WILL know. ]]

  9. Kevin says:

    A US Army Recruiter on another web site http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116354&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=920 says the Obama document will get you into the army and a job requiring security clearance. It will also get you a US Passport.

    I just ask, why are we starting to ask for special birth records for Obama when it was never required of any president before? Is it just because the same guy who smeared John Kerry’s war record has decided to smear the next guy too? Because that’s really all it is when you dig all the way to the bottom.

    My .00 something % figure was based on the 25,000 people who had signed the birth certification petition divided by 306 million in population. Anybody can put up a web site that looks like a million dollars.

    But what makes me really angry is the fact that if the Obama Birth Certificate (hospital copy) comes out and it turns out that Obama was born in Hawaii and nothing at all is amiss, these “forensic document analysts” and these phone conversation recorders, and these lawsuit filers (all of whom would have fabricated evidence, lied and, distorted the truth) will not have to face any consequences of their actions, and will gear up to smear the next guy.

  10. TRUTH says:

    First, Happy Thanksgiving Kevin to You and Yours.

    Now, are you serious? That would make you ANGRY? You just answered the very question I have asked time and time again, without even realizing it. WHAT makes it ok for YOU to be angry, but we The American Citizens that want to see the document can’t be angry? But we ARE angry, for its our right to know, and to ask. See how it feels Kevin?

    Your justification of “its never been required before”, that has a few different problems. One, just because something has never been done before does not make it wrong. No President-Elect ever before has made himself open to all of these questions before ever, that isn’t our fault. AND, the way you word it, how can he be Smeared if he is legitimate? ANd if getting to the BOTTOM of things does Smear him because he is not qualified, well that is the purpose of this is to find the truth. WHY are you worried about SMEARing if he is qualified?

    AND, lets compare both cases hypothetically. 1) He finally shows the authentic document, it passes inspection, no harm no foul to HIM or YOU or the Democratic Party. … yet that makes you mad? 2) He shows it, its authentic and all conservatives now KNOW the truth and KNOW that our CINC is qualified. 3) We never see the document, Never know the real truth, and he indeed is NOT qualified. Why RISK something like that, when the simple thing is to show it?

    You’ve yet to say, “sure show it, he has nothing to hide”. All you keep coming back with is reasons NOT to show it. Why is that? Worried we will find something unfavorable?

  11. Kevin says:

    What makes me angry is anyone telling lies and getting away with it.

    I fully appreciate what you’re saying though.

    I do take on the role of a apologist when I defend Obamas NOT providing the original birth record photocopy, particularly now that I have dug up Hawaiian law that seems to me conclusively shows that it is available to him (something I didn’t know about until an hour ago). If I were an Obama adviser, I would tell him “show them the damned thing”. But at the same time, I think that people shouldn’t have to meet unreasonable requests, and providing a different kind of certified copy of a birth record than the one already provided is not a reasonable request. Either meets the Constitutional requirement. I can wish he’d provide the document at the same time defending his right not to.

    I also firmly believe that if Obama were to provide the birth record requested, the smearbots would just move on to their next phony agenda item. Maybe we are all better off thrashing about on this one.

  12. TRUTH says:

    Thats one I personally disagree on. There are a few questions need answered about his past, all of which will be answered as soon as the real B.C. is revealed. They sure can’t gripe about the Granny or Kenyan ANyone saying he was born there if he shows the B.C. stating otherwise. Your starting to speculate now Kevin, one thing at a time here now.

    As for it being an “unreasonable request”, I stand corrected, thats two things we disagree on. haha. But hey, our opinions are what make us different.

  13. Kevin says:

    My new article at http://www.blogordie.com/?p=299, argues, I think conclusively, that the birth certificate presently available answers all questions about where president elect Obama was born that the hospital copy would answer. Under Hawaiian law, they are considered equivalent.

  14. TRUTH says:

    There ya go again Kevin, HAWAIIAN Law…..Mr Obama isn’t running for Governor of Hawaii. They can spout all they want about what the said “copy” is worth, that’s Super! We want to see the Original BC, or should I say, a verified to be true copy of the original by someone other than a Hawaii official and Obamanite. And I read your other article, well written once again, but not really “conclusive”. Real is only Real if its REAL. Not Real good, or Real close, but Real…as in the REAL B.C.

    AND, I didn’t comment in that other article because the Blog Manager here said “This Is Final”. I was trying to abide by his wish. 🙂

  15. Kevin says:

    “Final” was just wishful thinking.

    I think your definition of “real” is artificial. If I asked to see your real drivers license you would show me a state-issued document with some security features that was printed by a computer based on an abstract of data in some computer database. I don’t think you would appreciate me demanding something else because your driving test scores, the signature of the official who road-tested you, a list of the documentation you submitted to prove your identity, etc. is not on it. Your driver’s license is legally sufficient for the purpose for which it was issued, to prove that you are licensed to drive a car. The same is true of a birth certificate document from Hawaii; it is legally sufficient for the purpose for which it was issued, to verify the facts of birth (including name, date and location).

    In the United States, certification of births is a state function. It’s how our law works. And again, the administration in Hawaii is Republican, so don’t call them Obamanite’s because you should know better.

  16. TRUTH says:

    (but remember, you posed the continuing question overriding your wishful thinking)

    Hmmmm, where to begin here.

    Would I mind if you asked for further documentation? Well, is it possible first of all that I would be able to get it? Is there a form in which I am able to apply for and get you the information you wish for even? I could be mistaken but I don’t believe there is. If there was and you justified the reason for needing it, and I HAD to have it for whatever, of course I would get it. When I joined the USNavy, I gave them a copy of my original 1961 (61, imagine that..haha) birth certificate. But that wasn’t the last time over the next 21 years I had to produce it. I COULD have just said, “ask the Navy, I already proved it to them”, but I didn’t It was a very simple task, unlike this extremely difficult expedition we are asking of Mr. Obama..”show us the piece of paper”. ANY defense of him doing otherwise is saying, “in the slim case your not qualified Mr. Obama, that is ok with me, because we like you to much to take the risk of losing you”.

    Then again, the analogy itself of the drivers license/common citizen to Birth Certificate/POTUS, a bit weak I have to say. Kinda like comparing water to gasoline, both liquids so drink the gas and pour the water in your car.

    Asking for our Potential Commander In Chief to verify his qualifications that are clearly written in the Constitution is not overstepping any boundaries. Declining to adhere to the request is a different story, and the reason for all this mess. Show the document, prove you qualify, game over. And you speculating it won’t be over but something else will come along, that’s rubbish. I could speculate I can’t go to work because I have a McCain sticker on my car and I know a liberal is going to key my car, or the world is going to end tomorrow, neither very reasonable. We deal with what we have in front of us to the best of our ability, not whimper about “what if’s”.

    Finally, as for Republicans in Hawaii, I wouldn’t care if they were all Catholic Priests, Show US The Document. How many Reps voted for Obama, and vice versa?

  17. Kevin says:

    At some point you have to decide whether your usual approach to things is to trust the “competent authorities” (whether it’s a teacher in school, or a pastor, or a highway engineer, or the state registrar of vital statistics) or you’re going to question everything. Conspiracies exist, no doubt, but it’s a question of how you live your life and how you see things. Dr. Onaka in Hawaii is a past president of NAPHSIS, which is the national organization of Vital Records agencies. He was in effect the president of all state registrars. One does not get elected as president of that body without the respect of one’s peers. To doubt Dr. Onaka is not reasonable.

    You may have been asked to provide your birth certificate, but asked by people who were responsible for verifying something and had a right and a duty to ask for it, not some “man on the street”. When you say “show us the document”, are you suggesting that all 305 million Americans should travel to Hawaii, walk in the vault and look at the original birth registration, because if you doubt Hawaiian officials, then you must also doubt any photocopy they make!. The United States has a representative form of government. The qualifications for President of the United States is decided by voters (who have selected Obama) and certified by the Congress. If you really want Obama’s certified hospital record examined, then I suggest you call your Congressman.

    Finally, if let’s say the Senate did ask for a photocopy of the certificated hospital report, and it was posted on the Senate web site, what would that prove? The same people who impersonated document experts and issued faked results before will say this one’s a forgery, too; they will say that the Hawaii faked the document before copying it, that the Senate is Democratic and that the fix is in. Once you get into “conspiracy theory mode”, there is no end. No amount of proof will satisfy someone who trusts no one. You can be damned sure that if Obama put a copy on his web site, no doubter would be the least bit impressed.

  18. TRUTH says:

    Saying “Show Us the Document” is a general comment of course. Hired document experts are being chosen as we speak. Then along with however many trusted agents they choose will, with the courts permission, view the document and whether or not they take a picture be the final verdict. That’s my definition of “Show Us the Document”.

    Do I doubt Hawaiian officials? I don’t know them, I can’t say. Contact my Congressman, oh that has been done, many times over. As has every single Elector in the Country, that are to cast their ballot December 15th. I’m not asking you to change anything Kevin. I just blog with you because you make good conversation on the matter, something I haven’t found with one other person on your side.

    And, this is only one matter, but part of your argument is it won’t stop after this, another assumption on your part. I for one have NO intention of pursuing ANYTHING once I hear he has the proper qualification. And should a group of radicals want to, I would put a paycheck on it they will be a very small minority. But the group(s) looking THIS matter are far from small, they make up Thousands of people, that I suspect represent Millions of Americans opinions. All We Want To Know is The TRUTH. I know I KNOW, that’s a scary world to step into for many liberal democrats, but trust me the Truth shall SET you Free. (many doesn’t necessarily include you)

  19. Kevin says:

    So you’re saying that you are perfectly comfortable trusting whatever a hired document examiner says, but you are totally unwilling to accept what the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health and the State Registrar of Vital Statistics says? Why is one trustworthy and the other not? No, if you are going to be intellectually honest, you either trust a competent authority or you trust no one and if you trust no one, you have to place you finger into the print of the nails yourself.

    There are those who are interested in the truth and there are those with a political agenda. Unfortunately, those with a political agenda are very skilled at raising doubts among those who are interested in the truth.

    I personally believe that I have arrived at the truth about where Barack Obama was born through a rigorously rational process (and published that process for public criticism). When someone points out a plausible weakness in my process I re-examine it and correct it.

    I think the very fact that no one in Congress is asking for a birth certificate suggests both that there is no great groundswell of popular concern over the issue nor is there anything substantial to it.

  20. TRUTH says:

    TO bad it had to be so Rigorous for you to figure it out. Had your Pres-elect just shown the actual birth certificate when asked you would’ve known long ago. We’ll see

  21. Kevin says:

    Well, the birth certificate was just one bit of Obama Citizenship Denial. Put aside where Obama was born, you still have the whole Donofrio and Berg suits with twisted immigration law claims and spurious Constitutional arguments, mythical Indonesian passports and things I’ve forgotten.

    But if I understand your position, the only acceptable way for Obama to release the document is to a court. You would not accept Obama just posting it on his web site. While you correctly say that Obama opposed going forward with the Berg suit, I would point out to you that in all probability Judge Surrick would have thrown the case out anyway as a matter of law (which Surrick explains in extreme detail in his order that I’ve read twice). Because Berg did not have standing to bring the suit (or in one area he brought to a court that didn’t have jurisdiction), the federal court couldn’t have heard the case, and evidence could not have been presented. As for the Andy Martin case in Hawaii, Obama was not a party to the suit. It was the State’s attorney that argued the case for not releasing the document. And had Andy Martin prevailed, all that would have resulted was a right-wing talk show host would have a certified copy of the document about which he could say anything he chose. He could change it, declare it a forgery or anything.

    So far, no one with the kind of standing or stature you would require to authenticate the document has offered to look at it.

    If an Obama certified hospital birth record ever comes out one of us will have “I told you so” rights based on whether it has the least effect at quenching the attacks.

  22. TRUTH says:

    Hmmmmmm… can you tell I have to rack my brains sometimes to comeback to your well thought out words. haha. I knew I should have gotten that better education long ago for some reason, which one lady took the time to point out that I have terrible grammar. haha I took the time to tell her how much I appreciated her opinion too. 🙂

    As for the not having “standing” issue, that is something that bugs me. If, lets use Berg, he did not have standing, then exactly what does it take to have standing? I would seem to me that just one American registered voter would be able to question whether something that has to do with a Voted in Candidate meets the Constitution requirement, but apparently not. So just what IS an accurate definition of standing?

    And I’m afraid the “I told you so” rights won’t apply here. I never said it would quench attacks completely, because I know there are just enough nut cases out there that we will hear stuff for the next 4 years. And no matter what is on the birth certificate, good or bad, I’ve never said yet claimed it without a doubt has incriminating information. Matter of fact I’ve merely claimed, “I Do Not Know”, and wish to know the Truth.

    Oh, we both know there are many on my side that would swear they are positive the b.c. will incriminate him, so much so that should it prove otherwise they may never let it rest. I don’t see people like that as a reason NOT to do this and do it correctly. Which is really the difference in Yours an My opinions here, you see what has been done thus far as adequate, I don’t.
    You’ll accept a 9.5, I want nothing less than a 10.0 in this matter. Something irrefutable that can not be questioned, and I don’t give a damn that no other President ever had to do this, this one needs to.

    (by the way Kevin, how do you alter text in here? bold, italics..etc..)

  23. Kevin says:

    “Standing” bugs a bugs a lot of people. Federal courts have limited jurisdiction, and the situations where the federal courts may be used are limited. State courts are different. The Donofrio suit was filed in state court trying to get Obama, McCain and the other guy removed from the ballot (ballots are a state function). One can then appeal a state court decision to the Supreme Court (with a pretty low chance of it being heard).

    But to sue in Federal court there either has to be a law that lets you do so, or it has to be some precedent to allow it.

    When one individual is “harmed” no more or less than any other citizen, then that person generally cannot sue in Federal Court. If they want redress of their grievance then they should ask Congress to pass a law redressing their grievance, or pass a low that let’s them sue in Federal court.

    If you want to learn about standing, Judge Surrick’s ruling in Berg vs Obama et al, is a wonderful education. http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/pennsylvania/paedce/2:2008cv04083/281573/28/

    To add boldface and italics, use HTML markup. I don’t know all the tags that are supported, but “a”, “strong”, “blockquote”, “code” and “em” work.

  24. Kevin says:

    Preceding comments talk about not being able to see the Hawaiian state seal on Obama birth certificate images. That is only true because images presented on web pages are shrunk down. When viewed full size, the seal is visible. For example, the Daily KOS birth certificate image has a plainly visible seal when viewed at ACTUAL size.

  25. TRUTH says:

    Actually, if your referring to what I said, I did expound a bit more than that, but ok there is a Seal…lets call New York Times and get it printed in tomorrows paper, this whole thing is off, the mystery is solved.

    There is not doubt that the COLB seen online was made authentically, by Hawaiian officials, at least no doubt in my mind. Who it was made FOR I have to question, but yep that is One Authentic COLB.

    Lets not complicate this, just “Show Us the Original”, then Obi-1 and his Jedi Knights can move into the big house. And may the Change be with them. I know, write my congressman.

    Hey, if you can get a copy of the Chicago Tribune, either Monday 1st or Wednesdays 3rd issue, you might find it a good read. And I live in Florida, go figure.

  26. Kevin says:

    Hey, if I had a copy, I’d show it to you.

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